Sunday, March 14, 2010

Group Joe Louis Discussion Posts

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25 comments:

  1. 1. When Grant visits Jefferson, they meet in the day-room and begin to talk. Why does Jefferson immediately bring up "when he was born" as Grant talks about the Christmas Program? Is Jefferson foreshadowing emotions or beliefs? Why do you think he forgets the death and birth of God?


    2. Vivian and Grant are talking about getting away and dropping everything, Why does Vivian think "something is" changing all of sudden? What details, events, actions lead her to think of such?

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  2. NOTE TO RESPONDERS: IF YOU DO NOT CITE PAGE NUMBERS OR PROVIDE SPECIFIC DETAILS FROM THE READING, YOU ARE NOT DOING YOUR JOB. YOUR GRADE FOR THESE ENTRIES WILL REFLECT YOUR FAILURE TO FOLLOW DIRECTIONS.

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  3. Sara: You are the next facilitator. Where are your questions?

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  4. Chapter 19:
    Figurative language and scenery are two excessively used elements in Chapter 19, that in my opinion specifically illustrate this black community. Through Grant's summarizing as to what went on at the play, I realized that this chapter depicts this black society greatly. "Most of the other people wore their 'going-to-town' clothes... clean and they were neat,"(pg 143) shows that the community is into making good impressions. As Grant identified the family's that attended; "..behind them sat most of the Martin family-about ten of them-most but not all," "The Williamses were there.."(pg 145), it is foreshadowed that family is a valued aspect, and that they care for one another as they sit amongst each other to pray for Jefferson. Miss Rita Lawrence also supports this idea, as a she treats her grandson calmly, and with care as it can be inferred that there is something wrong with him.

    Also, this line, "you could see gray-blue smoke rising from the big chimneys,"(pg 142) creates a dark tone, just as Grant describes the weather and rain. I think Gaines most likely painted this scenery so that he could create an air for the reader; a guilty, dull air that the black society experiences as Grant tells them to remember the man in jail; Jefferson.

    Chapter 20:
    Imagery and language is used yet again. I think that the types of weather; "the sky was overcast, and their was a chill in the air" (pg 154), and the surrounding figures; "pecan trees were bare, gray, and leafless.."(pg 154) are trying to create the way Jefferson is feeling in jail; a dull, lifeless setting.

    Gaines also reveals another side to Grant Wiggins in this chapter. I think that Grant has finally woke to reality; having gone through much adversity with determining how he will turn Jefferson into a man. "Twelve white men say a black man must die, and another white man sets the date and time without consulting one black person. Justice?" (pg 157). In my opinion this is a turning point for Grant; although, will it be for better or for worse? Is knowing "Friday, April 8th," (pg 157) is an advantage for Grant?

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  5. Ciera: To respond to your first set of questions, Jefferson is thinking about Jesus as a religious figure when Grant mentions the school program, and it seems he knows enough of the story to recognize that Jesus was executed wrongfully: "...Easter when they nailed Him to the cross, and He never said a mumbling word" (139). He may be making the connection between himself and the quintessential martyr of Christianity, but he doesn't seem to assume he is of the same quality, since he says, "I ain't no youman" (139). As for the significance of him mixing up Easter and Christmas, I believe it may just be a case of his current situation affecting his mental state. Grant describes Jefferson's eyes as being "reddened" on several occasions, and this may either be because of a lack of sleep or crying frequently (or a combination of both), and we know from Grant's narration that Jefferson has also been refusing to eat. All those factors may be messing with his ability to reason as well as he did before, which also demonstrates the dehumanizing effect this confinement is having on Jefferson.

    When Vivian says to Grant that something is changing, I am not so sure that she is necessarily saying Grant is making a difference yet in Jefferson's behavior and attitude, nor is she acknowledging some great transformation in Grant himself (at least not that I can notice at the moment, but I will continue to look). It may just be her way of encouraging Grant to continue pushing forward and to fight his tendency for "flight" (avoiding or escaping problems in life).

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  6. Chapters 21-23:
    "I can give them something that neither a husband, a father, nor a grandfather ever did, so they want to hold in as long as they can."(pg 167) I think that this statement made by Grant foreshadows change. In my opinion, Gaines is trying to imply the fact that Grant is altering the day to day life in this black community. He has realized his purpose and how is he going to shape the future for those to come. First move: Helping Jefferson to make sure, he walks to the chair like a man. The other factor in this situation is that he is telling all of this to Vivian, vividly. She is a major part as to why Grant goes to those visits with Jefferson, why he is determined to solve this puzzle. If Vivian wasn't in the picture, then he wouldn't have a care in the world for helping Jefferson. This character brings out another side to Grant, just as he does to Jefferson.

    "He looked at me again. 'Ain't never had enough ice cream. Never had more than a nickel cone.'"(pg 170). This makes reference to Grant going about the change he told Vivian of. It can be inferred in this scene that Jefferson and Grant have become open to one another, and have unknowingly connected. In my opinion, I think this conversation amongst the two of them, will only further their friendship. "That radio is there to help him not think about death."(pg 182) This quote said by Grant shows that he is sticking up for Jefferson's actions, that he now understands why sometimes refuses to talk and look at the visitor. I think that Grant will now be like that of a foreign translator; he will be capable of relaying such to Miss Emma.

    "I was just thinking maybe I could bring you a little notebook and a pencil."(pg 185) Will Jefferson even take the time to write down his thoughts?

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  7. Mr. Agostino, I agree with your response, and that Jefferson is most likely connecting himself and the quintessential martyr of Christianity, although of being of less quality. I think that Jefferson purposely brought up the confusion with Jesus to relate to himself, to solely make reference to the unknown date that he would die. I know that the loss of sleep, being caged in like an animal are all factors that could cause him to mix-up knowledge, but why this part of his religious faith? Therefore, I think their was something that could be inferred in the passage.

    I also concur with your perception on Vivian, because she is the one motivating him from time to time. Without Vivian, I think that Grant wouldn’t have come so far with Jefferson. I wonder if she knows something that Grant doesn’t?

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  8. Chapters 24-25

    "Do you know what a hero is, Jefferson? A hero is someone who does something for other people. He does something that other men don't and can't do." (pg 191)

    I think that Jefferson and Grant have established a true friendship at this point. This change that Vivian said she saw is now taking place. Grant has gotten him to listen to what he says without getting on the ground and acting like a "hog." Jefferson has the opportunity to walk to the chair as a man with pride and courage till that last second.

    "He looked at his buddy, then back at me. And the hatred in those light-brown eyes was thick enough to cut with a cane knife." (pg 199)

    Through imagery and diction, means of hatred and coldness between Grant and the bricklayers can be implied. I think that this scene also distinguishes the change in Grant. He has the courage to stick up for Jefferson just because the men down at the other end of the bar that are talking trash, "Should have burned him months ago."(98) Grant has specifically gone about altering his own life as he assists with Jefferson's coming of age, in my opinion.

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  9. Did passage instead of questions..
    Questions:

    Does Grant's hero speech affect Jefferson? Why or why not? Will this talk light a flame for change, in meaning will action be taken?

    Do you think Grant got any satisfaction out of fighting the bricklayers? If so, why?

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  10. Chapters 26-27

    "I went to the front door..." (pg 210)
    Grant gets into an argument with Vivian, and then abruptly attempts to leave her, but runs back burying his head into her lap. I think this scene demonstrates a reality check that Grant was having. He's realized all that is gone wrong, he has realized that without Vivian there is certainly nothing in his eyes to live for.

    On pg 217, Reverend Ambrose is talking to Grant, about how he wants him to teach Jefferson to believe in God and the world above. The Reverend gets angry, and begins calling Grant "boy," because in my opinion he has expressed that he has given up with the situation to Grant.

    "I know what they gone through. I know they done cheated themself, lied to themself - hoping that one they all love and trust can come back and help relieve the pain."(218)

    I gathered much information from Reverend Ambrose's life speech to Grant. I think that in a way, Reverend has give up, he has put almost all of the responsibility in Grant's hands and has given Grant a new outlook on life; lessons that he still needs to learn himself. When Reverend talks about these lies that he makes to make people happy, the lie that he wants Grant to tell Jefferson that there is a god, do you think that Grant will give in and lie?
    When Reverend Ambrose says all of this to Grant, he generalizes about the common people, but as I see it, Jefferson is different, he's the one in the jail cell, that can make a difference.

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  11. Chapter 28

    "The last couple of words were barely visible, because the lead had been worn down all of the way to the wood. I read it over the second time before closing the notebook. I didn't know what to say to him."
    (220)

    Within this scene, where Grant Wiggins is reading Jefferson's journal, imagery and tonality is created. It is almost as if the reader can be in the book, the reader can experience and feel the emotions of Grant and Jefferson. This scene is vital to the entirety of the book because the two develop a deeper relationship, one that will certainly affect the way Jefferson walks to that chair. Jefferson has grown to be open, interactive, caring and respectful. "Care for a 'tato, Mr. Wiggins?" (225), illustrates how Jefferson's cold-hearted personality has changed to caring for others.

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  12. Chapter 29; Jefferson's Diary

    Do you think if Jefferson was brought up with affection throughout his childhood, would he be acting different in this jail cellar? Would he be pleasing others? Why or why not?

    Jefferson specifically makes reference to his interpretation of love, "i just feel like tellin you i like you but i dont kno how to say this cause.."(pg 228) Do you think Jefferson knows what love is even though he denies it? If we read between the lines, can we tell that he loves Miss Emma, Grant...? Why or why not?

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  13. chapter 24 summary
    grant and miss emma went to see jefferson,as they were waiting for him the frist thing that they heard was his chains around his ankles then jefferson entered followed by the deputy.miss emma was makeing food and jefferson started praying. i think jeffersonis realying fealing down and i think that he starting to relize that people are actuly care for him.

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  14. Chapter 30-31

    "Closed its wings for a second or two, then opened them again and flew away... I watched it fly over..." (252)

    This scene where Grant Wiggins is outside waiting for Jefferson's execution to happen he sees this butterfly outside. I think that Gaines is trying to foreshadow Jefferson as the butterfly. He is trying to symbolize that eventually it will fly away, be let free.

    "Straight he walked. I'm a witness." (254)
    This quote said by Paul when he visits Grant after all is over, is in my opinion the most important scene of the book. Jefferson has finally come to realize that he can change the world outside of himself and he has. He has gotten Grant to realize that he needs to be stronger, he had all of the black people taking the day off out of respect, and he had the children kneeling down for him. Grant Wiggins can be compared to Reverend Ambrose in many ways. He has benefited the life of another, even though it was hard.

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  15. Chapter 16-18 summarys

    pg121 chap16"jefferson lay on the bunk with his back to them,and there was no place for them to sit. miss emma managed to get a small place to sit by pushing him gently closer to the wall. she passed her hand over his head and his shoulder while she whispered his name." i think that this chapter was about jefferson beggining to fuigure that people are creing for him but he doesent know how to show this back. later grant tells jefferson that he aint no hog and to not belive them and grant just keeps telling that he aint no hog.

    chapter 17 pg 131"i herad pual coming down the block speaking to the prisoners calling them by there first names threating this one with hard work and another for being good. he looked at jefferson as he let me out of the cell. jefferson lay with his backtoward us." jefferson in this chapter i think is still being stuboron in a way becuse people are trying to make him feal better and he wont let any one rly get through to him.

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  16. "I don't know when I am going to die, Jefferson. Maybe tomorrow, maybe next week, maybe today. That's why I try to live as well as I can everyday not hurt people. Especially people who love me, people who have done so much for me, people who have sacraficed for me. I don't want to hurt those people. I want to help those people as much as i can." (129)
    -I think that Grant is trying to get Jefferson to act more like a man and accept what is going on even though he might not want to. Grant is trying to say that you have to live your life & not think about the terrible things that are going to happen. He is saying that jefferson should think about the ones that love him & the opnes that he loves and try to impact their lives more.

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  17. "She was right; i was not happy. i had heard the same carols all my life, seen the same little play, with the same mistakes in grammar. The minister had offered the same prayer as always, Christmas or Sunday. The same people wore the same clothes an sat in the same places. Next uyear it would be the same, and the year after that, the same again. Vivian said things were changing. But where were they changing?" (151)
    -Grant is trying to say that it's his time to finally get out of this town. He has been here all of his life & finally wants to leave & make something more of himself then what he already is.

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  18. "She started up the aisle toward the cash register, but just about then the white woman came into the store. The clerk set the radio beside the cashr egister and went to see what the white woman wanted. The other woman was not buying anything; she only wanted to talk. So they stood there about ten minutes before the clerk came back to wait on me. After ringing up the bill, she asked me if I needed a bag. But she asked it in a way that i knew she didn't want to give me one. No, thanks, I told her, and after paying, I tucked the little radio under my arm & left" (176)
    -This quote is showing how jefferson wants things like a radio, and ice cream- not mentioned here- that he never had a s a child. He wants these things so he can have had everything ehe wanted as a child, but was not able to have, before he dies...

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  19. -"'Our father who art thou in Heaven,' Reverend Ambrose began."(189)
    -When reverend Ambrose goes to the jail to preach to Jefferson it shows that him and most of the town really does care care about him. They want him to eb a man and walk to the electric chair with his head held high. They want him to know that they'll mioss him and want him tog et accepted into Heaven. They want to make Jefferson believe he cans tilll be the man he would like to be.

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  20. "I don't know how long I stood there looking out into the darkness-a couple of minutes, i suppose-then i went back into the ktichen. I knelt down and burried my face in her lap."(210)
    -Grant does this upon thinking about thinking about Jefferson. He wants to help Jefferson. He wants to help him think of himself as a man, rather then an animal. He doesn't know what to do & turns to Vivian in hopes of her comforting him & as someone he can confide in to help him with her feelings as to what he needs to do & how he can really help Jefferson.

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  21. "...You never thought I was nothing else. I didn't neither. Thought I was doing what the Lord has put me on this earth to do" (224)
    -Jefferson explains to grant that he does not think he cans till be something else, or to be a man. Aside from what grant, Miss Emma & the Reverand are saying. he does not believe he can still be a man and that upsets him because all he really wanted to do was be a man & with his situation now he doesnt feel that he can be nor that he has the time to be.

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  22. "Yes, I told myself. It is finally over."
    -Grant is relieved amd devastared about Jeffersons death at the same time. Himself and the whole town is going to be upset. But they're also going to be relieved in a sense that Jefferson is no longer sitting in a jail cell waiting to die.

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  23. chatpers 16-18
    chapter 18 pg (137)
    "when i came up there a couple of days later, the chief deputy told me i could meet jefferson in his cell or in the dayroom.i told him it dident matter to him either, but he told paull to take me to the dayroom"i feal that this chapter is about people geting to know jefferson beter and make him feal better everone that he knows would be there in the day room to greet him.

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  24. chapters 19-20 pg151
    "i sat on the chair inside the pulpit eating fried chicked and bread" in this chapter the people of this town were celibrating becuse opg the christmas time was hear.grant was depressed. people brought some food for jefferson and begainwith the christmas program.
    chapter 20 pg158 "they sentence you to death becuse you were at the wrong place at the wrong time with no proof that you had anything at all to do with the crime other then being there when it happened. yet yet six months laterthey come and unlock your cage and tell you, we us white folks all have decided its time for you yo die because this this is the convenient date and time." this is a very iomportant quo0te or paragraph becuse they are telling jefferson that he doesent have long to live and that there more or less telling him his future and telling him he is going to die.

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  25. chapters 19-20 pg151
    "i sat on the chair inside the pulpit eating fried chicked and bread" in this chapter the people of this town were celibrating becuse opg the christmas time was hear.grant was depressed. people brought some food for jefferson and begainwith the christmas program.
    chapter 20 pg158 "they sentence you to death becuse you were at the wrong place at the wrong time with no proof that you had anything at all to do with the crime other then being there when it happened. yet yet six months laterthey come and unlock your cage and tell you, we us white folks all have decided its time for you yo die because this this is the convenient date and time." this is a very iomportant quo0te or paragraph becuse they are telling jefferson that he doesent have long to live and that there more or less telling him his future and telling him he is going to die.

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