This is a blog for students in Mr. Agostino's period 3 and 6 English 11 classes to use as a forum for meaningful discussion about Ernest J. Gaines's novel A Lesson Before Dying.
NOTE TO RESPONDERS: IF YOU DO NOT CITE PAGE NUMBERS OR PROVIDE SPECIFIC DETAILS FROM THE READING, YOU ARE NOT DOING YOUR JOB. YOUR GRADE FOR THESE ENTRIES WILL REFLECT YOUR FAILURE TO FOLLOW DIRECTIONS.
It would really help if you posted the pages that your taking your questions from because I don't recall anything about Jefferson saying that he wants Grants help.
About the Moral thing I think that Grant asks Jefferson what moral means maybe because he might think that Jefferson really did kill Mr. Grope. But, I also think that he asks Jefferson this because he wants Jefferson to show more love and appreciation to Miss Emma and that its morally right that he do this. For instance he should converse with her and eat her food. Page 139 "That's right he said. Easter when they nailed Him to the cross. And he never said a mumbling word." And then Grant says "Jefferson, do you know what moral means?" This actually makes me think that he asked him this because he wants to know if Jefferson thinks the things he says is morally okay. Like, how he keeps referring to himself as a hog.
1) Why do you guys think that Jefferson has taken this approach of not caring about anything. Now he is a little less quiet but everything he says is something degrading to himself and he directly refers to himself as a hog and not being a human anymore. Page 139 "Do you know what obligation means? He didn't answer. But he kept looking at me. No matter how bad off we are I said, we still owe something. You owe something, Jefferson. Not to me. Surely not to the sheriff out there. But to your god mother. You must show some kind of love. Then Jefferson said, Thats for youmans (humans), he said, I ain't no youman." I think that when Jefferson was in the court and the defender said those things he really did lose his perception of himself. But anyway, what do you guys think.
2)Do you think that it is beneficial for these jail cell meetings to continue. I mean obviously they will be in the end because then this book wouldn't have been written but do you think it's in Grant's best interest. Page 141 "I'm not doing any good up there, Vivian, Nothing is changing. Then she says something is." I think this implies that she notices something that is changing probably in his behavior. Do you guys think that she means this in a bad way or a good way?
trizzy the munch. I think what you said was very insightful. I do believe that jefferson still does care for Miss Emma, and that he must start to treat her right. I also think that he asked Jefferson because he wants to know if he is still "human". He doesn't talk and hides in his bed all day like a hog. That is ironic, because that is what he is called in the courtroom.Grant just wants to know if there is any hope for Jefferson
ohh whattup cieraa part of this group now .. anyway will didn't write anything he told me he would so i was waiting before i made my summation but i guess he won't be anymore so:
Yeah i agree TC of Zimbabwe I do think that Jefferson cares for his godmother I just think that he's so shocked about what is happening that he really doesn't have the capacity to be anything but reserved. The thoughts in his head must be overwhelming.
Also, i agree with what you said about Grant asking Jefferson the morals thing because he is trying to see if he really has de evolutionized while in jail, however even though Grant didn't get a resoponse he liked he can still realize that Jefferson is still human..somewhere in there.
Since Will didn't write nothin i'll out a passage thing..
Page 167 Starting at the first paragraph of this page about halfway down: Grant is talking to Vivian about the vicious circle that he and every black man in the south is caught in and why Tante Lou and Emma want Jefferson to die as a man an stuff like that, I think that my boy Jeff will go out like a man but what will become of Grant after? He says that he needs to break the circle and he's basically got the best shot because he's the most educated and stuff like that but he talks about the need for him to run away. But, he also says that if he runs away he is running away and leaving behind a burden adding to the burden already left from so many black men from before him. However, he also mentions that if he doesn't run away he will be broken down just like all the other black men that stayed behind. Man, this really is like a vicious circle. Anyway, i think that I was supposed to explain something so at the end when he said that to break this cycle it's up to Jefferson, I think he means this because if Jeff dies a man then that would mean that he is one of the few, if not the only, black man that stayed behind and wasn't broken down to the animal that the whites of that time want him to be.
i really don't know whose supposed to be writing but heres my passage review thing: page 176 about the radio this isn't really an interpretation its more of a reflection.. first a brief overview is that Grant brought the radio and brings it to the jail and the sheriff was like yeah yeah it's okay now just don't bring things in without my permission again, basically he was just asserting his authority about being the white man. I know that the sheriff is the one in charge at a jail house but does it also annoy you guys the way the sheriff acts to Grant. I know you don't have to respond to this but this is really getting on my nerves. What also got on my nerves is how miss emma is acting so fragile. I don't know whether or not her ailments are for real but she just annoys me like show some strength for your son whose about to die woman.
these are my questions page 199 bottom of the page grant said "you shut up or get up" " I mean that." I know Grant was probably drunk at this point but why do you think he wanted to fight? I think that his anger about being victimized by prejudice against whites just came out at this point because this prejudice ruined one of the best moods he's been in since the whole jefferson thing started. What's your guys thoughts on that?
question number 2 page 210 bottom Grant said "I don't know how long i stood there looking out into the darkness -- a couple of minutes i suppose -- then i went back into the kitchen. I knelt down and buried my face in her lap." It's apparent that Grant is madly in love with his girlfriend but why do you think this is so? I mean he said that he wants to get away from this place so bad and Vivian is the only thing that keeps him here. And Vivian questions his love for her by asking if its only about the sex. That might say something about there actual relationship status but the might be assuming too much. Bottom line, why do you think Grant is so infatuated with Vivian, why won't he just leave her behind and free himself of this place?
NObody is writing anything so I guess I'll put a passage review up: Page 210 the scene after the fight when Grant is in Vivian's house and they're having an argument. Grant keeps saying "Honey I love you" and Vivian doesn't get any less mad. She asks him what is love and asks if their relationship is about sex and Grant doesn't know how to answer so he says that he'll leave. "I'll leave" I said. "Sure, that's the easy way out--leave." That was Vivian's answer to Grant's suggestion. I think that this has to do with what Grant is saying about wanting to leave this place and go away and never come back. This might illustrate Grant's weakness because whenever things get difficult and Grant doesn't know what to do his first inclination is to just run away from his problems. This also has to do with Jefferson because from knowing Grant's weakness by always wanting to leave, we can better see the strength in Jefferson. He can't leave or run away or go anywhere so in that way he is much stronger than Grant could ever be. Because Jefferson is beginning to turn around and face his situation head on, something Grant could never do.
"I can give them something that neither a husband, a father, nor a grandfather ever did, so they want to hold on as long as they can." Grant pg (167) This is an important quote, because Grant tells us what he means to his Aunt. He is as important to is Aunt as Jefferson is to Tante Lou. He is the only male figure in Miss Emma's life, and she loves him more than anything. Grant also talks about how the black men are pretty much screw ups in his town, and that he can teach reading,writing, and arithmetic.
"That is not a hero. A hero does for others. He would do anything for people he loves, because he knows it would make their lives better" Grant 191 Grant says this to Jefferson to give him hope about his future. Grant believes he can never be a hero because he is just a teacher. He believes that Jefferson can be a hero because he can stand tall up to the white men. I think this is ironic, because you'd think that a teacher can touch more people then a jail inmate. Grant is putting all of his hope into Jefferson for the black community.
"She told me to help him walk to that chair like a man- not like a hog- and I'm doing the best i can, Reverend. The rest is up to you." 214 This is important because it makes it seem like Grant does not really care about Jefferson, and that he is just doing it for his Aunt. He seems like he doesn't care, but he really does or else he wouldn't be doing this in the first place. It is also an important scene because we come to see how immature he really is.
"You've never had any possessions to give up, Jefferson. But there is something greater than possessions- and that is love." (222)I think this is one of the best quotes in the book. It is inspiring Jefferson or anyone who even reads it. It is a great theme to the book, in that love is more important then possessions. Grant believes this because of his relationship with Vivian. He would do anything for her and give up any of his things to be with her.
"i cry cause you been so good to me mr wiginan nobody aint never been that good to me and make me think im somebody"(232)Jefferson says this in his diary. It is such an important quote, because we know Jefferson has changed. We know that Grant has done the impossible and changed "A hog to a man." He also believes that he is worth now, and i think that if he had the chance to be saved he would take it and look at the world in a totally different way, instead of not even caring about it.
Why does Grant think that Jefferson might actually need Grant?
ReplyDeleteWhy does Grant ask Jefferson what moral means?
NOTE TO RESPONDERS: IF YOU DO NOT CITE PAGE NUMBERS OR PROVIDE SPECIFIC DETAILS FROM THE READING, YOU ARE NOT DOING YOUR JOB. YOUR GRADE FOR THESE ENTRIES WILL REFLECT YOUR FAILURE TO FOLLOW DIRECTIONS.
ReplyDeleteIt would really help if you posted the pages that your taking your questions from because I don't recall anything about Jefferson saying that he wants Grants help.
ReplyDeleteAbout the Moral thing I think that Grant asks Jefferson what moral means maybe because he might think that Jefferson really did kill Mr. Grope. But, I also think that he asks Jefferson this because he wants Jefferson to show more love and appreciation to Miss Emma and that its morally right that he do this. For instance he should converse with her and eat her food. Page 139 "That's right he said. Easter when they nailed Him to the cross. And he never said a mumbling word." And then Grant says "Jefferson, do you know what moral means?" This actually makes me think that he asked him this because he wants to know if Jefferson thinks the things he says is morally okay. Like, how he keeps referring to himself as a hog.
Heres my questions....
ReplyDelete1) Why do you guys think that Jefferson has taken this approach of not caring about anything. Now he is a little less quiet but everything he says is something degrading to himself and he directly refers to himself as a hog and not being a human anymore. Page 139 "Do you know what obligation means? He didn't answer. But he kept looking at me. No matter how bad off we are I said, we still owe something. You owe something, Jefferson. Not to me. Surely not to the sheriff out there. But to your god mother. You must show some kind of love. Then Jefferson said, Thats for youmans (humans), he said, I ain't no youman." I think that when Jefferson was in the court and the defender said those things he really did lose his perception of himself. But anyway, what do you guys think.
2)Do you think that it is beneficial for these jail cell meetings to continue. I mean obviously they will be in the end because then this book wouldn't have been written but do you think it's in Grant's best interest. Page 141 "I'm not doing any good up there, Vivian, Nothing is changing. Then she says something is." I think this implies that she notices something that is changing probably in his behavior. Do you guys think that she means this in a bad way or a good way?
trizzy the munch. I think what you said was very insightful. I do believe that jefferson still does care for Miss Emma, and that he must start to treat her right. I also think that he asked Jefferson because he wants to know if he is still "human". He doesn't talk and hides in his bed all day like a hog. That is ironic, because that is what he is called in the courtroom.Grant just wants to know if there is any hope for Jefferson
ReplyDeleteohh whattup cieraa part of this group now .. anyway will didn't write anything he told me he would so i was waiting before i made my summation but i guess he won't be anymore so:
ReplyDeleteYeah i agree TC of Zimbabwe I do think that Jefferson cares for his godmother I just think that he's so shocked about what is happening that he really doesn't have the capacity to be anything but reserved. The thoughts in his head must be overwhelming.
Also, i agree with what you said about Grant asking Jefferson the morals thing because he is trying to see if he really has de evolutionized while in jail, however even though Grant didn't get a resoponse he liked he can still realize that Jefferson is still human..somewhere in there.
Since Will didn't write nothin i'll out a passage thing..
ReplyDeletePage 167 Starting at the first paragraph of this page about halfway down: Grant is talking to Vivian about the vicious circle that he and every black man in the south is caught in and why Tante Lou and Emma want Jefferson to die as a man an stuff like that, I think that my boy Jeff will go out like a man but what will become of Grant after? He says that he needs to break the circle and he's basically got the best shot because he's the most educated and stuff like that but he talks about the need for him to run away. But, he also says that if he runs away he is running away and leaving behind a burden adding to the burden already left from so many black men from before him. However, he also mentions that if he doesn't run away he will be broken down just like all the other black men that stayed behind. Man, this really is like a vicious circle. Anyway, i think that I was supposed to explain something so at the end when he said that to break this cycle it's up to Jefferson, I think he means this because if Jeff dies a man then that would mean that he is one of the few, if not the only, black man that stayed behind and wasn't broken down to the animal that the whites of that time want him to be.
i really don't know whose supposed to be writing but heres my passage review thing:
ReplyDeletepage 176 about the radio
this isn't really an interpretation its more of a reflection..
first a brief overview is that Grant brought the radio and brings it to the jail and the sheriff was like yeah yeah it's okay now just don't bring things in without my permission again, basically he was just asserting his authority about being the white man.
I know that the sheriff is the one in charge at a jail house but does it also annoy you guys the way the sheriff acts to Grant. I know you don't have to respond to this but this is really getting on my nerves. What also got on my nerves is how miss emma is acting so fragile. I don't know whether or not her ailments are for real but she just annoys me like show some strength for your son whose about to die woman.
these are my questions
ReplyDeletepage 199 bottom of the page grant said "you shut up or get up" " I mean that." I know Grant was probably drunk at this point but why do you think he wanted to fight? I think that his anger about being victimized by prejudice against whites just came out at this point because this prejudice ruined one of the best moods he's been in since the whole jefferson thing started. What's your guys thoughts on that?
question number 2
page 210 bottom Grant said "I don't know how long i stood there looking out into the darkness -- a couple of minutes i suppose -- then i went back into the kitchen. I knelt down and buried my face in her lap."
It's apparent that Grant is madly in love with his girlfriend but why do you think this is so? I mean he said that he wants to get away from this place so bad and Vivian is the only thing that keeps him here. And Vivian questions his love for her by asking if its only about the sex. That might say something about there actual relationship status but the might be assuming too much. Bottom line, why do you think Grant is so infatuated with Vivian, why won't he just leave her behind and free himself of this place?
NObody is writing anything so I guess I'll put a passage review up:
ReplyDeletePage 210 the scene after the fight when Grant is in Vivian's house and they're having an argument. Grant keeps saying "Honey I love you" and Vivian doesn't get any less mad. She asks him what is love and asks if their relationship is about sex and Grant doesn't know how to answer so he says that he'll leave.
"I'll leave" I said.
"Sure, that's the easy way out--leave."
That was Vivian's answer to Grant's suggestion. I think that this has to do with what Grant is saying about wanting to leave this place and go away and never come back. This might illustrate Grant's weakness because whenever things get difficult and Grant doesn't know what to do his first inclination is to just run away from his problems. This also has to do with Jefferson because from knowing Grant's weakness by always wanting to leave, we can better see the strength in Jefferson. He can't leave or run away or go anywhere so in that way he is much stronger than Grant could ever be. Because Jefferson is beginning to turn around and face his situation head on, something Grant could never do.
"I can give them something that neither a husband, a father, nor a grandfather ever did, so they want to hold on as long as they can." Grant pg (167) This is an important quote, because Grant tells us what he means to his Aunt. He is as important to is Aunt as Jefferson is to Tante Lou. He is the only male figure in Miss Emma's life, and she loves him more than anything. Grant also talks about how the black men are pretty much screw ups in his town, and that he can teach reading,writing, and arithmetic.
ReplyDelete"That is not a hero. A hero does for others. He would do anything for people he loves, because he knows it would make their lives better" Grant 191 Grant says this to Jefferson to give him hope about his future. Grant believes he can never be a hero because he is just a teacher. He believes that Jefferson can be a hero because he can stand tall up to the white men. I think this is ironic, because you'd think that a teacher can touch more people then a jail inmate. Grant is putting all of his hope into Jefferson for the black community.
ReplyDelete"She told me to help him walk to that chair like a man- not like a hog- and I'm doing the best i can, Reverend. The rest is up to you." 214 This is important because it makes it seem like Grant does not really care about Jefferson, and that he is just doing it for his Aunt. He seems like he doesn't care, but he really does or else he wouldn't be doing this in the first place. It is also an important scene because we come to see how immature he really is.
ReplyDelete"You've never had any possessions to give up, Jefferson. But there is something greater than possessions- and that is love." (222)I think this is one of the best quotes in the book. It is inspiring Jefferson or anyone who even reads it. It is a great theme to the book, in that love is more important then possessions. Grant believes this because of his relationship with Vivian. He would do anything for her and give up any of his things to be with her.
ReplyDelete"i cry cause you been so good to me mr wiginan nobody aint never been that good to me and make me think im somebody"(232)Jefferson says this in his diary. It is such an important quote, because we know Jefferson has changed. We know that Grant has done the impossible and changed "A hog to a man." He also believes that he is worth now, and i think that if he had the chance to be saved he would take it and look at the world in a totally different way, instead of not even caring about it.
ReplyDelete